* See Two (2) Updates (below)
* Third Update added 1/24/12 (below)
Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
"For ever" isn't only Tom's problem. It is also Dr. Ken Matto's problem and the problem of every Church-bound Family Radio Listeners (FRL) group member. (Lately, Ken has been busy searching the web for news reports of Family Radio stations being sold off and deleting porn-spam, so he's not involved with the group's discussions very much.) "For ever" is also the problem of most 'Departout' group churchbots. The end of Campingism continues to bring the church cult members out of the woodwork to broadcast their own perverted ideas. One such idea is inadvertently shining the light of truth on their false hope in eternal torment.
Eternal Tormentor Tom "Lambsfury" Golda continues to refuse to learn the meaning of "for ever" in the Bible, but he has been clobbered with an iron-fist question on his FRL message group that might make him squirm. The Greek word "aion" is such a simple lesson, but since it destroys the lie of eternal torment, it must be steadfastly IGNORED by Tom and his comrades.
Churchite "Bob K" presented a study to Lambsfury and the rest of the FRL membership on Matthew 24:35: "heaven and earth shall not pass away". Bob asserts that "heaven and earth" sometimes refers to Israel, the old covenant and other nations and offers the following conclusion:
BOB: "So in Matthew 24:35, when he talks about Heaven and Earth passing, he means Israel and the Old Covenant will pass away before his word will pass away...Our present Heavens and Earth will never pass away."
Oh dear. Why are they not content to remain obediently focused on the already established false deceptions of their respective churches? In their respective denominations? Why do they have to stray from their beloved pastors to go camping for new ideas? Next, Tom Golda showed up to save the rest of the FRL membership from Bob's idea. Tom cited all the right verses from 2nd Peter 3, followed by this good question:
LAMBSFURY: "I was wondering how you support your false doctrine in the light of these verses..."
This is where it becomes hard to watch, but even harder to turn away. Bob came back with his "support". And guess what it is. It is the phrase "for ever". Isn't this just too precious? This is the last thing an eternal tormentor who believes the world will one day be destroyed wants to hear!
In his reply, Bob cited two Old Testament verses using the same Hebrew word "owlam" which is translated as "for ever".
Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Ec 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
Just like the Greek word "aion", the Hebrew word "owlam" conveys the meaning of long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world.
Well, I, for one, can't wait to observe Tom, et al. IGNORE the "for ever" verses Bob uses for his support. Churchite-watching is just as instructional as Campingite-watching. Poor Tom. Poor Ken. It does not look hopeful that the truth will ever sink in.
Tom once cited what he considers to be the "oldest Bible in the world (Codex Sinaiticus - 4th Cent AD)" to try to prove his eternal torment hoax:
Re 14:11 And the smoke of THEIR TORMENT ascends FROM AGE TO AGE; and they who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name, have no rest day or night.
Re 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are; and they shall be TORMENTED day and night FROM AGE TO AGE.
Tom is so completely brainwashed, he could not even find correction from the old version he copied from. Doesn't this lame tactic remind you of Harold Camping's nonsense? An "age" is clearly a certain period of time - not an endless duration. I could not care less if you prefer "from age to age" or "for ever". The Greek word in all cases is "aion".
A quote from the archives on this subject:
"There is a big difference between condemnation, judgment, punishment and the wages of death. Beside the fact that Revelation 14:11 refers to "day and night" which only pertains to this world, this world is also full of ages and generations. I am a certain "age", which means I have lived a certain number of years. I have lived "forever" from the minute I was born. No matter how the Greek word is translated, an "age" is a period of time, just as the word "ever" is. Both words are translated from the Greek word "aion" (Strong's #165), which is from the same word "aei" (Strong's #104)."
Another iron-fisted quote destroying the lie of eternal torment:
"The "everlasting" destruction in 2nd Thessalonians 1:7 ("aionios") is not endless, as it was not endless for Philemon who was to receive Onesimus:
Phm 1:10 I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds:
* Third Update added 1/24/12 (below)
Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
"For ever" isn't only Tom's problem. It is also Dr. Ken Matto's problem and the problem of every Church-bound Family Radio Listeners (FRL) group member. (Lately, Ken has been busy searching the web for news reports of Family Radio stations being sold off and deleting porn-spam, so he's not involved with the group's discussions very much.) "For ever" is also the problem of most 'Departout' group churchbots. The end of Campingism continues to bring the church cult members out of the woodwork to broadcast their own perverted ideas. One such idea is inadvertently shining the light of truth on their false hope in eternal torment.
Eternal Tormentor Tom "Lambsfury" Golda continues to refuse to learn the meaning of "for ever" in the Bible, but he has been clobbered with an iron-fist question on his FRL message group that might make him squirm. The Greek word "aion" is such a simple lesson, but since it destroys the lie of eternal torment, it must be steadfastly IGNORED by Tom and his comrades.
Churchite "Bob K" presented a study to Lambsfury and the rest of the FRL membership on Matthew 24:35: "heaven and earth shall not pass away". Bob asserts that "heaven and earth" sometimes refers to Israel, the old covenant and other nations and offers the following conclusion:
BOB: "So in Matthew 24:35, when he talks about Heaven and Earth passing, he means Israel and the Old Covenant will pass away before his word will pass away...Our present Heavens and Earth will never pass away."
Oh dear. Why are they not content to remain obediently focused on the already established false deceptions of their respective churches? In their respective denominations? Why do they have to stray from their beloved pastors to go camping for new ideas? Next, Tom Golda showed up to save the rest of the FRL membership from Bob's idea. Tom cited all the right verses from 2nd Peter 3, followed by this good question:
LAMBSFURY: "I was wondering how you support your false doctrine in the light of these verses..."
This is where it becomes hard to watch, but even harder to turn away. Bob came back with his "support". And guess what it is. It is the phrase "for ever". Isn't this just too precious? This is the last thing an eternal tormentor who believes the world will one day be destroyed wants to hear!
In his reply, Bob cited two Old Testament verses using the same Hebrew word "owlam" which is translated as "for ever".
Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Ec 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
Just like the Greek word "aion", the Hebrew word "owlam" conveys the meaning of long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world.
Well, I, for one, can't wait to observe Tom, et al. IGNORE the "for ever" verses Bob uses for his support. Churchite-watching is just as instructional as Campingite-watching. Poor Tom. Poor Ken. It does not look hopeful that the truth will ever sink in.
Tom once cited what he considers to be the "oldest Bible in the world (Codex Sinaiticus - 4th Cent AD)" to try to prove his eternal torment hoax:
Re 14:11 And the smoke of THEIR TORMENT ascends FROM AGE TO AGE; and they who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name, have no rest day or night.
Re 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are; and they shall be TORMENTED day and night FROM AGE TO AGE.
Tom is so completely brainwashed, he could not even find correction from the old version he copied from. Doesn't this lame tactic remind you of Harold Camping's nonsense? An "age" is clearly a certain period of time - not an endless duration. I could not care less if you prefer "from age to age" or "for ever". The Greek word in all cases is "aion".
A quote from the archives on this subject:
"There is a big difference between condemnation, judgment, punishment and the wages of death. Beside the fact that Revelation 14:11 refers to "day and night" which only pertains to this world, this world is also full of ages and generations. I am a certain "age", which means I have lived a certain number of years. I have lived "forever" from the minute I was born. No matter how the Greek word is translated, an "age" is a period of time, just as the word "ever" is. Both words are translated from the Greek word "aion" (Strong's #165), which is from the same word "aei" (Strong's #104)."
Another iron-fisted quote destroying the lie of eternal torment:
"The "everlasting" destruction in 2nd Thessalonians 1:7 ("aionios") is not endless, as it was not endless for Philemon who was to receive Onesimus:
Phm 1:10 I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds:
11 Which in time past was to thee unprofitable, but now profitable to thee and to me:
12 Whom I have sent again: thou therefore receive him, that is, mine own bowels:
13 Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel:
14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; ("aionios").
I think it's a safe bet that Philemon is no longer receiving Onesimus as a brother. Endless Torment believers are not following the Lord Jesus Christ. They are following men."
So, put on your "Ignore" caps, Churchites, if you don't want to get all shook up over the nothingness of death that awaits unsaved man, which replaces your scenario of an immortal angry rage against Almighty God from the grave (a/k/a "hell").
Pr 19:3 ¶ The foolishness of man perverteth his way: and his heart fretteth against the LORD.
To witness first-hand how Mr. Lambsfury, Dr. Ken Matto and all the rest of the FRL members completely IGNORE the "for ever" verses cited by Bob K, tune your dial to the FRL discussion threads entitled, "The Passing of Heaven and Earth" and "Heaven and Earth Continued":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/familyradiolisteners/
I think it's a safe bet that Philemon is no longer receiving Onesimus as a brother. Endless Torment believers are not following the Lord Jesus Christ. They are following men."
So, put on your "Ignore" caps, Churchites, if you don't want to get all shook up over the nothingness of death that awaits unsaved man, which replaces your scenario of an immortal angry rage against Almighty God from the grave (a/k/a "hell").
Pr 19:3 ¶ The foolishness of man perverteth his way: and his heart fretteth against the LORD.
To witness first-hand how Mr. Lambsfury, Dr. Ken Matto and all the rest of the FRL members completely IGNORE the "for ever" verses cited by Bob K, tune your dial to the FRL discussion threads entitled, "The Passing of Heaven and Earth" and "Heaven and Earth Continued":
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/familyradiolisteners/
Update #1: Tom started a third brand NEW thread titled "NEW Heavens & NEW Earth", obviously to make it harder for anyone to follow the discussion. I do believe that he started a new thread and just added the word "Re:" in the subject line to try to hide the fact. Watch for even more threads on this subject to surface as Tom wrests control over the discussion to make it go his way. Will Bob force the Bully to address his "for ever" verses? If Bob doesn't stay focused, Tom will simply come back at him with "other" verses that do not use the pesky phrase "for ever". Tom will never address the verses Bob cited because he correctly believes the present heavens and earth will end. Everyone who is familiar with Tom Lambsfury is familiar with his sly tactics, but I doubt that Churchite Bob has the ability to stay focused. It's a good thing for Tom & Company that they banned me from their midst. I would handle it for ole Bob.
Update #2: Bob mentioned that Tom posted Psalm 102:26 in his "NEW Heavens & NEW Earth" thread, which opened up a whole new can of worms that would surely never die if Tom let the discussion continue. You see, Bob mentioned Lambkin's oft-repeated teaching on the word "perish" which, for Tom, apparently means "perish" only some of the time.
LAMBSFURY: "Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. THEY SHALL PERISH, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed" Psalm 102:26
The earth and the heavens WILL PERISH."
So what did Transparent Tom do? He did what any coward would do. He posted an old rant against the Camping timeline to completely change the subject. Tom would have gone on and on for days, playing cat and mouse with Bob K, but he knows that he has been pummeled into the dust with the truth's iron fist. Ouch. Therefore, the whole argument has PERISHED as Tom runs for the hills in fear.
Update #3: Today (1/24/12), after some gentle prodding from Tom for Bob K. to continue the discussion, Bob K. sent a follow up reply under the "NEW Heavens & NEW Earth" thread, FRL messsage #11756 (emphasis mine):
BOB: "What might appear inconsistant is that some verses in the Bible say the heavens and earth will last forever and some say they will vanish away, there is a reason for that, sometimes the term heaven and earth can mean something other than the Physical heaven and earth. I was just pointing that out."
Right. Bob can point that out all day and night, but they will continue to IGNORE it. They can't deal with "forever" in Bob's verses because they do not understand the way God uses the word. Just like they can't deal with the word "perish" and have to make it mean "change".
Tom has apparently regrouped and the interesting discussion is back on. Thanks to Bob K., Tom G. and the rest of the FRL group for another fantastic lesson in HOW DECEPTION WORKS.
Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Ec 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
Update #2: Bob mentioned that Tom posted Psalm 102:26 in his "NEW Heavens & NEW Earth" thread, which opened up a whole new can of worms that would surely never die if Tom let the discussion continue. You see, Bob mentioned Lambkin's oft-repeated teaching on the word "perish" which, for Tom, apparently means "perish" only some of the time.
LAMBSFURY: "Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. THEY SHALL PERISH, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed" Psalm 102:26
The earth and the heavens WILL PERISH."
So what did Transparent Tom do? He did what any coward would do. He posted an old rant against the Camping timeline to completely change the subject. Tom would have gone on and on for days, playing cat and mouse with Bob K, but he knows that he has been pummeled into the dust with the truth's iron fist. Ouch. Therefore, the whole argument has PERISHED as Tom runs for the hills in fear.
Update #3: Today (1/24/12), after some gentle prodding from Tom for Bob K. to continue the discussion, Bob K. sent a follow up reply under the "NEW Heavens & NEW Earth" thread, FRL messsage #11756 (emphasis mine):
BOB: "What might appear inconsistant is that some verses in the Bible say the heavens and earth will last forever and some say they will vanish away, there is a reason for that, sometimes the term heaven and earth can mean something other than the Physical heaven and earth. I was just pointing that out."
Right. Bob can point that out all day and night, but they will continue to IGNORE it. They can't deal with "forever" in Bob's verses because they do not understand the way God uses the word. Just like they can't deal with the word "perish" and have to make it mean "change".
Tom has apparently regrouped and the interesting discussion is back on. Thanks to Bob K., Tom G. and the rest of the FRL group for another fantastic lesson in HOW DECEPTION WORKS.
Ps 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Ec 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
2 comments:
April,
Most of the Bible deals with the phrase 'The Beginning and The End' - that's where the Revelation of Christ is - who is The First and also The Last. He is Pre-eminent as He is before all things and in Him all things consist. This all points to the beginning of creation and its end point. Most of the time, 'Forever' deals within this time period beyond which is still a promise to the elect of God - eternal life. Then comes the end...... 1Cor 15.
John 1:1a ....'In the beginning was The Word; 1John 1:1 ...'That which was in the beginning....'; Rev 3....'The beginning of the creation of God; Rev 1......'Alpha and Omega, The beginning and The End....'
The above scriptures don't speak of eternity past or future but the timeframe of this present creation. The ending is in 1Cor 15 where it says .....'Then comes the end'. Also somewhere in Rev it says something like ...'there should be no longer time' as the Angel swears.
About the future we only have this promise : 1John 3.....'We don not know what we shall be but when He shall appear we shall be like Him.....' and of course, new heaven and new earth towards the end of Revelation.
These Eternal Tormentors don't understand the spiritual language of the Bible as they are carnal in their thoughts.
Anyways, your observation within their posts is notable. Spiritually minded people can see from any angle and come to the conclusion that 'forever' does not mean for all eternity.
Well put, Anthony. God is clear, but Churchites must keep the old traditions alive to feel safe in their group-think denominations.
I added an update to my post to highlight a new reply from Bob K. to Tom Golda in FRL message #11756:
Update #3: Today I see that Bob K. sent a follow up message to Tom and Dr. Ken on "NEW Heavens & NEW Earth" thread.
BOB: "What might appear inconsistant is that some verses in the Bible say the heavens and earth will last forever and some say they will vanish away , there is a reason for that, sometimes the term heaven and earth can mean something other than the Physical heaven and earth. I was just pointing that out."
Tom Gold, Ken Matto and the rest of the FRL group will have to continue to IGNORE the "for ever" problem in the "heaven and earth" verses. Just like they have to IGNORE "for ever" in many other places.
Post a Comment